LUKEWARM PEOPLE-FRANCIS CHAN

Unless you live under a rock you have probably heard of Francis Chan. He is lead pastor at Cornerstone Church in Simi Valley, California and one of the premiere pastors in America.

Last year he wrote a book Crazy Love.  I read it when it came out, but right now our HSM grace groups as well as my adult grace group I lead are going through the matching DVD curriculum. To say that Francis, his book, and the DVD are awesome is an understatement.  This week I have been focused a ton on this list of what the lives of lukewarm people look like. Read this and tell me you are moved to action.

1.  Lukewarm people attend church fairly regularly. It is what is expected of them, what they believe “good Christians do, so they go. (Isaiah 29:13)

2.  Lukewarm people give money to charity and to the church…as long as it doesn’t impinge on their standard of living. If they have a little extra and it is easy and safe to give, they do so. After all, God loves a cheerful giver, right? (1 Chronicles 21:24; Luke 21:1-4)

3. Lukewarm people tend to choose what is popular over what is right when they are in conflict. They desire to fit in both at church and outside of church; they care more about what people think of their actions (like church attendance and giving) than what God thinks of their hearts and lives (Luke 6:26; Rev. 3:1; Matthew 23:5-7).

4.  Lukewarm people don’t really want to be saved from their sin; they want only to be saved from the penalty of their sin. They don’t genuinely hate sin and aren’t truly sorry for it; they’re merely sorry because God is going to punish them. Lukewarm people don’t really believe that this new life Jesus offers is better than the old sinful one (John 10:10; Romans 6:1-2).

5.  Lukewarm people are moved by stories about people who do radical things for Christ, yet they do not act. They assume such action is for “extreme” Christians, not average ones. Lukewarm people call “radical” what Jesus expected of all His followers (James 1:22; James 4:17; Matthew 21:28-31).

6.  Lukewarm people rarely share their faith with their neighbors, coworkers, or friends. They do not want to be rejected, nor do they want to make people uncomfortable by talking about private issues like religion (Matthew 10:32-33).

7.  Lukewarm people gauge their morality or “goodness” by comparing themselves to the secular world. They feel satisfied that while they aren’t as hard-core for Jesus as so-and-so, they are nowhere as horrible as the guy down the street (Luke 18:11-12).

8.  Lukewarm people say they love Jesus, and He is, indeed, a part of their lives. But only a part. They give Him a section of their time, their money, and thoughts, but He isn’t allowed to control their lives (Luke 9:57-62).

9.  Lukewarm people love God, but they do not love Him with all their heart, soul, and strength. They would be quick to assure you that they try to love God that much, but that sort of total devotion isn’t really possible for the average person; it’s only for pastors and missionaries and radicals (Matthew 22:37-38).

10.  Lukewarm people love others but do not seek to love others as much as they love themselves. Their love of others is typically focused on those who love them in return, like family, friends, and other people they know and connect with. There is little love left over for those who cannot love them back, much less for those who intentionally slight them, whose kids are better athletes than theirs, or with whom conversations are awkward or uncomfortable. Their love is highly conditional and very selective, and generally comes with strings attached (Matthew 5:43-47; Luke 14:12-14).

11.  Lukewarm people will serve God and others, but there are limits to how far they will go or how much time, money and energy they are willing to give (Luke 18:21-25).

12.  Lukewarm people think about life on earth much more often than eternity in heaven. Daily life is mostly focused on today’s to-do list, this week’s schedule, and next month’s vacation. Rarely, if ever, do they intently consider the life to come. Regarding this, C.S. Lewis wrote, “If you read history you will find that the Christians who did most for the present world were precisely those who thought most of the next. It is since Christians have largely ceased to think of the other world that they have become so ineffective in this” (Philippians 3:18-20; Colossians 3:2).

13.  Lukewarm people are thankful for their luxuries and comforts, and rarely consider trying to give as much as possible to the poor. They are quick to point out, “Jesus never said money is the root of all evil, only that the love of money is.” Untold numbers of lukewarm people feel “Called” to minister to the rich; very few feel “called” to minister to the poor (Matthew 25:34, 40; Isaiah 58:6-7).

14.  Lukewarm people do whatever is necessary to keep themselves from feeling too guilty. They want to do the bare minimum, to be “good enough” without it requiring too much of them. They ask, “How far can I go before it’s considered a sin?” instead of “How can I keep myself pure as a temple of the Holy Spirit?” They ask, “How much do I have to give?” instead of “How much can I give?” They ask, “How much time should I spend praying and reading my Bible? Instead of “I wish I didn’t have to go to work, so I could sit here and read longer!” (1 Chronicles 29:14; Matthew 13:44-46).

15.  Lukewarm people are continually concerned with playing it safe; they are slaves to the god of control. This focus on safe living keeps them from sacrificing and risking for God (1 Timothy 6:17-18; Matthew 10:28).

16.  Lukewarm people feel secure because they attend church, made a profession of faith at age twelve, were baptized, come from a Christian family, vote Republican, or live in America. Just as the prophets in the Old Testament warned Israel that they were not safe just because they lived in the land of Israel, so we are not safe just because we wear the label Christian or because some people persist in calling us a “Christian nation” (Matthew 7:21; Amos 6:1)

17.  Lukewarm people do not live by faith; their lives are structured so they never have to. They don’t have to trust God if something unexpected happens-they have their savings account. They don’t need God to help them – they have their retirement plan in place. They don’t genuinely seek out what life God would have them live – they have life figured and mapped out. They don’t depend on God on a daily basis – their refrigerators are full and, for the most part, they are in good health. The truth is, their lives wouldn’t look much different if they suddenly stopped believing in God (Luke 12:16-21; Hebrews 11).

18.  Lukewarm people probably drink and swear less than average, but besides that, they really aren’t very different from your typical unbeliever. They equate their partially sanitized lives with holiness, but they couldn’t be more wrong (Matthew 23:25-28).

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26 thoughts on “LUKEWARM PEOPLE-FRANCIS CHAN

  1. this sounds like my parents… yet as I become more zealous for Christ, the more they call me “deceived”…

    I can’t get it through to them or hardly anyone else…

    All I get is “you’re trying to earn your salvation, works salvation heresy,” or “you’re lazy for not going to the -church-” while they sit aside and do nothing—while they think going to church once a week to hear from the same pastor makes you a Christian, while I learn daily and surround my life with Christ in heart, soul, and mind.

    And I will be honest, I seek knowledge often… and I need more heart/soul. I pray Christ will reveal this to me so I know Him, I don’t want to get to the end of my faith and hear “I don’t know you.” My faith is leading to action, and I can sense a revival of some sort is coming… few, but strong Christians are awakening to the sleeping giant that church “service” has lulled them into…

    As Francis Chan says(summarized)… “Christ came to make us fishers of men to make disciples of all nations… now the church looks more like an aquarium.”

  2. Sean,

    Your comment is full of pride.

    You are comparing your service to God to someone else’s.

    You said “I” eleven times. Do you somehow think God is impressed because you are doing something for Him? Perhaps you should be thankful that God is working in you, instead of boasting about how much better you are than your parents.

    I wonder who is actually experiencing the rest that is in Jesus Christ?

    • It’s full of pride to know one is growing in Christ and being chastised by the “true” Christians who do nothing but sin and sit? It’s full of pride to watch others sit aside in pews and complain because one preaches righteousness and doesn’t come to the church building once a week and check it off like it counts for something? It’s being full of pride to try and raise others up and build them up stronger in Christ, to challenge their steadfast beliefs that are not grounded in the Bible–but in pagan traditions… and to only be told “I”m comfortable in my faith(and my sins), I don’t need to learn anymore.”–what ignorance.. God hates it!

      Thank God it is like 6 months later and my parents began to wake up and realize the church they’re in is NOT what is commanded by Scripture and Christ…obviously my “pride” was put to use by God in their house.

      I’m not comparing myself to anyone–I’m only grateful for God’s grace to show me to the truth, I’m trying to help others grow and being chastised for it… I was given the gift of knowledge and I intend to use it to further the Kingdom.

      Read the Old Testament prophets and the letters to the 7 Churches in Revelations my friend… may God Bless you.

      • Sean, Luke was probably just concerned about the fact that you seem a little “I” focused. Like YOU have something to prove, because your post was built in a way that brought more attention to you than the point you were trying to make. Pride isn’t the end of the world, but ignoring the fact that you have a pride issue can be troublesome, especially when trying to “build others up”. The way you phrased your last post was pretty defensive, which is often a symptom of pride. I struggle with pride all of the time as most people do, but you need to see the pride in your life for what it is, and take it on. That does not mean that you should stop trying to effect others lives in a positive way, just that if you could find a less prideful/Confrontational approach to “building others up” it would probably be easier for all of the other prideful people around you, to accept what you have to say.

  3. wow, this made me very uncomfortable but im slowly getting away from this life style by getting deep sorrows and God revealing by His own will (not mine) to me. i learned i can’t just act good, but i have to be good and let all my secrets resentments out for Jesus to see because after all that’s what he really wants to see, even if i have bad thoughts. because though Paul he said “You are not hot or cold, how i wish you were either one, but you are lukewarm so i will spit you out”.

  4. Great list. I felt a bit convicted by how much more I can surrender my life to God. It’s easy to think that you have given everything when you are still being lukewarm.

    I have been listening to a lot of Francis Chan recently, and I believe it is helping me to strengthen my relationship with God. The only concern I have is that his books are not available for free. That is always concerning to me.

  5. please tell me what the answer is for lukewarmness! Not even works will save us because, like Paul said, “if i give all i have to the poor, and surrender my body to the flames, I GAIN NOTHING”. I am lukewarm and absolutely freaking out. How can i get hot?!?

  6. (Really long but PLEASE READ!!) secondly…what does this mean for me? i thought i understood things like Jesus having to be the sacrifice for sins. I thought I was only just recently starting to grasp God’s holiness, how I am nothing, and can do nothing, without Jesus, that im totally unworthy yet only because of Jesus can I come into the Father’s throne room and lay my requests at His feet. I struggle with being ruled by emotions (feeling when i fail that i could never apply Gods promises to me bcause my obedience record was just too horrible (which now i realize may be plenty closer to the truth)) but i thought He was only allowing these trials to mold me into who He wants me to be. I’ve sung worship songs, praised Him, and I refuse to even type “Jesus be____” (no one but those with the Holy Spirit can say “Jesus is Lord” and no one can say “Jesus be _____” except without the Spirit)… so all this time He hasnt been hearing or answering my prayer requests or receiving my worship? He was never with me? Only recently have I begun really to pray for commitment and that He would show me His will, I started praying insistently for it… so all the things I thought He’d done were coincidences or what? im going to a Christian uni this fall to get a BA in Studio Arts and study the Bible more in-depth and just last week the president increased all transfer scholarships so im getting more money from the school. That was just a coincidence? I had harbored a suspicion that i wasn’t doing God’s will, I wasn’t a Christian, because my parents have a nice house, i have a job im slowly improving in, I have a car, etc., but I haven’t ever really had a “trial” of any sort.. I’m not suffering, not being persecuted except by myself (still have a lot of self-hatred because of my laziness). If i am one of God’s children, where are my deep dark trials? I have no enemies,I get along with the people I work with and I apologize to God whenever I”m the slightest bit annoyed with a customer. So…God was never with me? In high school I wore all black and swore all the time (including using His holy name) and worshiped a certain book and its characters (I still battle them almost every day). An old childhood friend came back into my life and fueled my “return to God” (i now put that in quotations because I don’t even know if I really did now). I got baptized in ’09, started attending a church where God really spoke to me (as I was driving I prayed that God would show me a church that not only told me wha3 His word said but how to apply it to my life and that Sunday the pastor said those exact same words) and now I go to a Bible study that has been many answered prayers combined. have i been living a lie for three years? After coming to this realization last night I feel empty today and it is so awful I am actually physically ill. Yet I don’t want to be lukewarm, i still stubbornly cling to a small hope. Please respond!!! I just want God to be pleased with me…

    • what hurts the most about realizing this (and this is probably so full of pride) is that I wasn’t pleasing to God…I called Him Father, and Jesus Lord…………….and because of my actions He hated it. What hurts is that I can’t go to Bible Study tonight and worship Him, that all this time I was nothing more than another God-less Israelite He wished the priests would shut the temple to (see Isaiah 1:12-15)….call me overdramatic but I don’t care about anything anymore… indeed I have the appearance of being alive, I’m breathing, walking, and maybe talking………but inside, I’m horribly empty.
      All I want to do is be able to call Him Father again… and just when I thought I was starting to grasp things….. as my previous post said, I was just starting to understand how I can’t do anything without Jesus, just starting to do a Bible study on John every morning in an attempt to start the day with the Word…..and it all falls to pieces. I don’t know what to do.

      • p.s. Just picked up the Bible right now to look for a certain Scripture to show my friend and just burst into tears.. I could hardly turn the pages.

  7. sorry, one last question (i dont mean to spam it up lol but i just think of things after i post) What about God’s grace and enduring love? Does He not care about lukewarm people who want to stop being such?

    • So, I just finished reading your posts, then I had to go back and skim the article over again too get my bearings, since it’s been a while since I first read it. Anyway, I think that something you may have missed is how much the word “desire” is used, which stood out a lot to me after reading your comments, and how much you used the word “want”. Do you WANT to be lukewarm? It doesn’t sound like it. Do you try to avoid your guilt? “still have a lot of self-hatred because of my laziness”, and “and I apologize to God whenever I”m the slightest bit annoyed with a customer.” doesn’t sound like avoiding guilt to me. If anything your self-hatred is a sign of too much guilt. Paul said that we should morn over our sins; he did not say that we should hate ourselves. Such hatred comes from Satan, and is a mockery of the Cross, as though Jesus sacrifice is not sufficient to atone for your sins. It is clearly evident by your posts that God is working on your heart, and that you are listening and growing. Only God knows where you’re at, what you can handle, and what you should be doing to serve, and to grow in him. God loves you. He wants you to love and follow him, with all of your heart. FOLLOW him, not go do everything perfectly right now. What God really wants is you, not the things that you can do for him. HE WANTS YOU! Your obvious desire, to love and serve him more, are all he sees when he looks at you, because all of those imperfect things, that are hideous and unholy in his sight have been washed away by the power of Christ’s blood. No one is perfect; everyone needs the Cross; and everyone needs the Holy Spirit to work in them in order to grow. If you think that you aren’t growing fast enough, or aren’t good enough, despite your best efforts, you are really just being impatient with the Holy spirit. When Abraham showed this same impatience he got what he thought that God wanted for him, but what ended up just being a mess. God Loves you and is pleased with you and his Grace IS SUFFICIENT for you.

      • Below is a link to a youtube video of me singing a song that happens to tie into some of what I was talking about above. You will probably have copy and paste though, sorry…

  8. except recently i’ve been reading up on some things, just commentaries and such, and it’s not a good prognosis. I seem to be among those who either haven’t been saved in the first place because commitment is severely lacking (who have not endured to the end) or those who have tasted and seen that the Lord is good, but have become entangled again. Which means that I’ve either lost my salvation, and await a worse fate than those who never believed, or my belief is too weak to truly honor and follow the Son… I can commit for a few days but inevitably I will fail. I don’t know if this will change with school starting in the fall, going to a Christian uni with many ministry and outreach opportunities. Recently this questioning of my faith has even caused a cease in worship (as I didn’t know whether He was receiving it or hating it) and prayer (again, as I don’t know whether He is listening or ignoring me)… I’m going to a bible study tomorrow evening, and hoping to talk with someone there and get advice on whether or not I have hope or if I’m just condemned by my lack of faith.

    • I can only assume that your worries about what God thinks about your worship or prayer are rooted in the messages of the prophets in the Old Testament (that’s assuming they have any biblical roots at all). In these prophesies there are two main reasons that God gives for why their worship (in the form of animal sacrifice) was a stench to him and why he would not here there prayers, they are: insincere worship, and unconfessed sin; they were also openly mocking God, but that was more of a symptom of the other two.
      The evidence of their insincere worship was that they were offering defective and even diseased animals as sacrifices. For us worship is an offering of ourselves as living sacrifices, and we are all diseased and defective, BUT we are covered in the blood of Jesus the only perfect human sacrifice, which covers ALL of our “defects” and make us Holy and pure in God’s sight. As for unconfessed sin if you are worshiping and God reveals to you some sin in your life, you should take a moment to confess and repent of said sin, then continue worshiping in full confidence that your worship is Holy and pleasing to God.
      Basically the same stuff goes for prayer. Worship and prayer have always gone hand in hand, and are both involved with our intimate communion with God, that was paid for in full by Christ’s death on the cross. If you are “condemned by [your] lack of faith” it is only because of your lack of faith in Jesus blood to cover all of your many short comings. Your repeated failures are not blocking you from communion with God, your own pride, and paranoia are all that’s keeping you from accepting Jesus sacrifice as a complete covering for all of your sins, and short comings.

  9. Pingback: The Lukewarm Christian « Do WHAT, Lord?

  10. tcarr,
    My dear, dear child! You are a dearly beloved child of the King! Don’t let the Enemy deceive you into thinking that God is not pleased with you. Remember, the Devil is a liar & the father of lies! He is the Accuser & loves to make us feel like God is displeased or angry with us over our sins or lack of faith, etc., etc. (By “us ” & “our” I am refering to believers). The truth is, none of us is perfect. None of us has perfect faith or a perfect walk with God. And God knows we aren’t going to be perfect, hence the cross. So no, God has not rejected you or left you at all!!! If anything, the very FACT, and it is a fact, that you care SO MUCH about God & being pleasing to Him is a sure sign that you belong to Him & that He is with you!!! He will never leave or forsake you! You OBVIOUSLY have a heart that is right with God. You desire so much to walk with Him – that shows that you do know Him & that He is at work in your life! Please, don’t despair. If you didn’t have God in your life you wouldn’t care so much about whether you have God in your life or not. And don’t fret over the “lukewarm” thing. I think if all of us were to be honest & really examine ourselves, we’d all be guilty of one or more of the “signs” mentioned in Francis Chan’s book. I know I see some of those signs of lukewarmness in my life. And even tho I know I need to grow & overcome in those areas, I also know that my shortcomings (and we all have them) do not seperate me from the love of God & He is not angry with me. There is no condemnnation for those of us who are in Christ! I’m not trying to say our sins & shortcomings don’t matter, but we are forgiven & declared righteous in God’s sight, completely covered by the Blood!!! God is not mad at you anymore. You are His child – I have no doubt about that. The very fact that you care so much about God & His work in your life – and you care ALOT – is the evidence that you are His!!! He IS your loving Heavenly Father & He delights in hearing you call Him Father, because my dear one, you clearly belong to Him. Don’t let the devil discourage you with condemnation & doubt (3 of his biggest weapons-discouragement, condemnation & doubt). Remember, God loves you. He is with you & will never leave you. You are not lost & have not lost your salvation. (it’s obvious). You are his. Rest in His love & acceptance of you as His child. May His peace be with you.

    • Tina

      I understand the point of encouragement, but your post was probably one of the most unbiblical things I’ve ever read—you need to go back and read the Scriptures on your own IN CONTEXT. I spent a good part of the morning at work grieving about how you wrote out this email message to that person. I have no idea who taught you all that false stuff, but you need to stop listening to them—now.

      The Scriptures clearly state IN CONTEXT that Jesus can be angry with us, and cut us off—and He can be displeased with us if we’re in sin.

      The whole entire point of this blog was about the Revelation 3:14-22

      14 “And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans[f] write,

      ‘These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God: 15 “I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. 16 So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth. 17 Because you say, ‘I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing’—and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked— 18 I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see. 19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent. 20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me. 21 To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

      22 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”’”

      I’m sure you will turn around and clearly contradict this Scripture written to a church of God(His people) and act like it’s somehow applied to unbelievers… but it’s not, it’s written to Christians. This is about as clear as one can get to show Jesus is NOT PLEASED with this body of believers. That many are enamored with the world and it’s things and need to repent. I hope you won’t turn around and tell me you believe telling someone you’re going to “vomit them out of your mouth” because one is so sickening—that God is still pleased with them. If so consider another church in Revelation 3

      “And to the angel of the church in Sardis write,

      ‘These things says He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars: “I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead. 2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works perfect before God. 3 Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you. 4 You have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy. 5 He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

      6 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”’

      This church had members who’d gotten into sin, and was told they needed to repent–and only those who OVERCOME will be clothed in white garments. JESUS told this church their works were not perfect.

      So what does that mean? Yes our works can be perfect, in fact that’s what commanded… it doesn’t mean we don’t have the ability to sin, because IF we do we need to repent and confess to be cleansed(1 John 1:9—1 John 2:2).

      This is the rest of the verse you posted half of it in Romans 8 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

      Those who don’t walk in the Spirit are spiritually dead, and need to repent. Keep reading the whole context of Romans 8. Don’t you understand the danger of ripping out one verse from it’s context? Is that how someone taught you to read? Is that what you do with friend’s letters? Take out a sentence or two and twist it to mean something entirely different than what the context clearly states… you need to stop doing that and read it as a whole.

      Read 1 Peter 1:13-16

      13 Therefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and rest your hope fully upon the grace that is to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; 14 as obedient children, not conforming yourselves to the former lusts, as in your ignorance; 15 but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, 16 because it is written, “Be holy, for I am holy.”

      Titus 2:11-14

      11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, 12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, 13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.

      1 John 2:3-6

      3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

      1 John 3:2-9

      2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. 3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.

      4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

      7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

      I don’t mind you reading the entire context of any of this, in fact I encourage you to–but you need to not give people false assurance. There’s nothing in the Bible that says that you should be giving him some assurance just because he’s reading the Scriptures and trying to pray that means he’s saved—-He needs to seek God on his own and get assurance from GOD, not you. To falsely assure someone of their being saved no matter what is the most dangerous thing you could possibly do… that’s what FALSE prophets did in the old testament.

      Read Ezekiel 13, and Jeremiah 23

      Jeremiah 23:16 Thus says the Lord of hosts:

      “Do not listen to the words of the prophets who prophesy to you.
      They make you worthless;
      They speak a vision of their own heart,
      Not from the mouth of the Lord.
      17 They continually say to those who despise Me,
      ‘The Lord has said, “You shall have peace”’;
      And to everyone who walks according to the dictates of his own heart, they say,
      ‘No evil shall come upon you.’

      Telling someone they have “peace” when you have no idea about their true situation is false prophecy. You need to tell people the truth to seek God and to humble themselves and repent, giving up their sins… for God will give grace to the humble who forsake their sins–not receive those who hold onto their sins.

      2 Cor 6

      14 Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness? 15 And what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever? 16 And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God. As God has said:

      “I will dwell in them
      And walk among them.
      I will be their God,
      And they shall be My people.”
      17 Therefore

      “Come out from among them
      And be separate, says the Lord.
      Do not touch what is unclean,
      And I will receive you.”
      18 “I will be a Father to you,
      And you shall be My sons and daughters,
      Says the Lord Almighty.”

      If the man is feeling conviction and you’re working against the Holy Spirit, you’re also in huge trouble. You need to stop doing that and let the Spirit do it’s job and bring that man fully back to God. Telling him God loves him this and loves him that may be true—but it’s false assurance if he’s not saved. God has a general love for all mankind, but that love won’t save everyone and won’t hold people against their will if they choose sin over Him.

      I think I’ve given you enough to study and read over, and don’t reply as if you think you should be teaching over me(as I’m a man and presume you’re a woman with your title–it’s not your position). You need to read all these Scriptures and search out the truth, not return as if the Scriptures contradict themselves so I can answer all your objections.

      May God bless you with repentance.

      • You assume allot, I’m not going to drag this out, but here are some examples: you assume that the Holy Spirit has convicted him even though he has mentioned confession and has professed a desire to work on his weak areas, and a hope that a more intentional environment would help him to work through his problems. You are technically correct about many things, but the flavor of your above comment is arrogant and disrespectful. Though Tina is most likely a woman and Paul is clear that women should not be in authority over men (ie teaching over men), that does not give you the right to be a jerk about, and I noticed you used very careful and specific phrasing “teaching over me” to give yourself the biblical high ground, in case she were to answer your accusations, even though a response by her would not likely come under the umbrella of “teaching over” by any reasonable definition. Finally you characterized her post as being “probably one of the most unbiblical things that [you’ve] ever read” even though it is obvious that much of what she said could be linked to specific passages of the Bible; the only real exceptions being her ASSUMPTION that he was still living in Christ and not simply giving in to his sin (or “living in sin” -your words) whereas you came to the opposite ASSUMPTION, and were clearly thrown by her APPARENT acceptance of his APPARENTLY sinful lifestyle. I think that if we are going only on that information which he provided her ASSUMPTION would be correct and yours wrong however if he was not totally honest then she may be wrong. You may, also, want to consider the possibility that Spirit may have influenced her in her wording to be confident in her conclusions…. Or not, but either way the only one in this situation who knows the true state of tcarr’s relationship with God is God. She probably could have been a little more careful with her choices of words, but you also could have responded in a less arrogant and confrontational manner.

  11. I was confrontational, no doubt–that’s what Scriptures say to do to those who are mis-representing the truth(2 Tim 4:2). I can go through example by example where she was ripping things out of their context, but enough was given to show it… “God is not pleased with us NO MATTER what” is the type of attitude that came out of the message and that is about as false as one can get in the Scriptures. It was rebuked, soundly and with love and much Scriptural correction.

    This is text, and you clearly read into my words and do not know my intent. But arrogant is not true, for the whole point of telling her I’m a man and she need not reply with more Scripture(as if the Scriptures contradict, which they do not)—is not for putting myself above her as you assumed, but because I don’t want her to sin in trying to put herself in authority over me by teaching. The whole context of teaching over someone has to do with questioning them, and many women are quite ignorant or un-submissive to this clear command in Scripture. It wasn’t for my pride, it was for her sake that I told her that.

    I am an open air preacher, and I go out witnessing quite often—I know how visible Christianity portrays itself so yes assumptions to some degree are being made(as we all make them). I’ve talked with more than enough un-Christ like women who profess godliness than I can count, so I made a preliminary statement based on that continual evidence—again, for her sake, not mine. It was not a judgment that she WAS that way, but not to be that way in replying.

    God bless

    • To your last: I assumed as much.
      To the point “God is Pleased with us NO MATTER what” is a direct lie, and also not something she actually said. I just checked and rechecked and you must be confused. she did say, “There is no condemnnation for those of us who are in Christ! I’m not trying to say our sins & shortcomings don’t matter, but we are forgiven & declared righteous in God’s sight, completely covered by the Blood!!!” which is truth, though she never addressed what his situation would be if he was living in unrepentant sin, because he appears to be repentant, and she was trying to encourage him, as you already noted. If he was unrepentant than there are many things in her post that are absolutely not true. I think that’s where the disconnect comes. Almost everything she said was directed specifically at him and is therefore reliant on his honesty to be truth. So that we’re clear I don’t think that I disagree with you on any point except that she said something directly unbiblical. I could be wrong of course.

      God bless you too.

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